Initial dialog was on a FaceBook thread in the CONVERSATION group hosted by John Kellden. Peg is 90 Larry is 81
INTENTIONS FOR CONTACT AND DIALOG.
Peg Wortman Larry, I read your blog and am interested in you, your limitations, and what seems to me your wanting to reach to other minds and make contact.
Yes, Peg, I actually seek more than contacts, but contacts are the first step in catalyzing a new “movement”, a wave to spread through the whole of humankind. Yet, as you see from the length of this reply, there is more psychologically involved. I am projecting out, to you and to others who might read this. Yet, I am deeply interested in the details of the lives of others. I have not read many biographies during my 81 years, but I now realize EACH PERSON has much more depth than their public stereotype shows. At this moment I am deep into Richard Dawkins, and have recently posted to my blog. I would be very interested in learning of your 90 years adventure. nuet’s emergence as been a balance of what I have learned from others, but organized uniquely. Persons, Ideas, and Events are the cornerstones of my life.
Some of the best books I have recently read about specific ideas, were woven in the autobiographical tale of the author. I have been tempted to do this. Unfortunately, all my ideas are interdependent and are beyond containment in even a large book. They require both nested (outliner) and networked (hypertext) organization, and should include visuals as well as videos of me and others in dialog. It would function as an online learning/educational expedition, where the learner/educators contribute. This long held dream is now well beyond my ability to manifest – but teams might.
Peg Wortman I have been trying to imagine myself (I’m ninety) dealing with the limitations you described. I could go on about that, and I could describe myself as you have described yourself —- that is, at length and in detail, but I am a different person from you. Maybe if I wrote about how I operate I would be aghast at the picture it made.
My disabilities are not a conscious handicap, as they have always been part of me and I adapted to them. I speculate that if persons could actually experience what others experience, it would be very strange most of the time. Persons who had but lose visual imagery report the experience as traumatic. I would find it useful having visual imagery on command; but to have it continually present would be a massive distraction.
Each of us is really a whole world, a pattern-of-patterns processing within our body/brains/minds. Seven billion worlds living today, a vast diversity of worlds. Many might be aghast if the knew of how different we humans are – but our cognitive diversity is our hidden strength. Most persons have difficulty comprehending and understanding what it would be like without imagery or a sensory past. I wonder at the tales others give of their experiences. I would not like to have visual imagery now, as I most likely wouldn’t be able to control it and I would be driven insane. When working as a therapist for disturbed students, I discovered that many were simply overwhelmed by unbidden imagery.
You used the term “transparency” somewhere – and that is what humankind desperately needs. Yet, the careless use of social media by many bites them back.
Peg Wortman One hint for you, Larry: You know how the light shining from a lighthouse appears to flash off and on? But it doesn’t. It is the equivalent of doors that open (to allow the light to be seen), and close in a pattern that make the light’s flash appear to turn in a circle. Same light = different doors. I am like that. At one time, one aspect of myself is apparent; at another time, a different aspect of myself. Yet they are all me.
First, your description of how a lighthouse functions is new to me. Once, the spotlight rotated. Opening doors/windows is, of course, another option. The rotating light would probably conserve energy for the same brightness of beam. Or, they might use both.
As a metaphor to your mind over time, different windows opening – to let our “what”, or to let in “what”? Using “apparent”, you imply that this may be how others observe you at different times.
Peg Wortman Will you let me know, yes or no, whether my above description of myself seems understandable to you in the terms I used?
From my perspective, every experienced moment can be from a different context (conscious perspective). Personally, I “feel” that it is the same “Larry” having different experiences and being more-or-less attentive/energetic. I notice the differences, but it is the same “me” – which I can’t describe. That “me” is an unobserved observer. Sometimes I speculate that there might be only observation without an observer, experientials without an experiencer. The observer or experiencer is only an aspect of the observation or experience. One exception, certain stimuli triggers me to shout – an eruption from my unconscious that I immediately am aware is inappropriate. But, all my many insights also emerge from my unconscious.
I don’t like the term “consciousness”. In analogy, it is like calling parts of a tree: leaf, sub-leaf (branch), un-leaf (trunk), non-leaf (roots) for consciousness. sub-c, un-c, non-c.
To the other extreme, the psychological literature reports on persons who have a set of different identities (once multiple-personalities), some not being ever aware of the others. In mid-range, there are persons who are quite different in different settings, like home, work, or at play. These can be intentionally learned or develop without intent. Once I speculated on the possibility of each person organizing their mind as a team of cooperating identities.
Peg Wortman To converse with me you might have to reply to things I ask AS WELL AS to go on about whatever you are thinking.
I will be pleased to reply to your questions and queries. I do have a habit/practice of responding often by presenting an alternative perspective for comparison or offering to expand the context implied by the question. This is not attempting to redirect the dialog to my issues – but is the way I feel best to respond. Other times I may ask for more detail, sometimes when I don’t adequately comprehend what you seek. If I have not responed to your satisfaction, please inform me and I will try again.
Long ago I created my own distinction between “understand” and “comprehend”. For me, to “understand” relates to emotional satisfaction about an issue, and seeking closure. It reports a subjective feeling of agreement. “Comprehension“, on the other hand, is an inter-subjective evaluation; the result of a comparison between two knowledge structures. Ideally, for two persons to mutually comprehend a conceptual scheme, each would agree that each others utterances/writings on the issue is OK. Many persons report understanding without adequately comprehending. It is the person speaking/writing who evaluates comprehension by the listener/reader.
Peg Wortman Here’s a question for you, Larry. Why do you want contact? What is it you hope to get from a contact (with anyone, not just with me)? Is it an IDEA you want? A FEELING you want? If a feeling, a feeling of WHAT? A feeling of being SEEN? Of being TOUCHED? A feeling of being RECOGNIZED?
Peg, this is a very good question, with different “answers” from different contexts. Larry has feeling needs of being respected and recognized, and sometimes SHOUTS when he feels he is being dissed. nuet needs constructive feedback and to be part of a viable and productive team. Larry also needs seafing (supporting, enabling, augmenting, facilitating) if nuet is to be shared with humankind.
For the rest of my functional years my top priority is to witness my conceptual systems (UPLIFT to Societal Metamorphosis) be part of a viable, emergent movement of humans. To this end I need recognition by those equipped to be partners in the UPLIFT enterprise. Larry is very poor at achieving this. At this moment he is open to changing tactics and developing strategies.
For all the strategies nuet imagines for teams and humankind, nuet is unable to assist Larry do what he should be doing. Larry knows what to do, in general, but is unable to actually do it. Over my life, some persons have become quite interested in some of my insights, but don’t seem aware of the larger whole. Some of these are lifelong friends and colleagues, aware that they don’t fully comprehend nuet, but seem unable to learn more – for reasons the puzzle us all. We remain close. Many of those who initially expressed interest drift away, and I realize that they saw me as someone to assist them achieve their goals and had no interest in my goals. I attempt to share the view that seafing nuet will greatly enhance whatever projects others want to pursue. I would like a few to get on board with me, but most of those I interact with are already fully engaged in their own causes and projects, which I don’t expect them to abandon. I would like to recruit some young minds (independent of chronological age) who have yet to claim a cause or personal project, or are about to change focus.
There are many psychological reasons why Larry has not developed many needed “social skills”. I am liked by many, but all view me as “too intense” – most can’t take more than a few hours interacting with me. I have never been a good team player – I don’t even know what to do, other than do what others want me to do. As one of 20 men wintering over in the Antarctic in 1961, there was a strong “tribal” sense; but my project there was only mine. I also lived, while at Yale in New Haven, in an urban commune – and greatly enjoyed the cooperative spirit, which was supported by a few very explicit “rules” and “responsibilities”. I have never experienced being in a team working on a project of my design. I had student aides when functioning as faculty, but never was able to learn to “employ them effectively”. Often, to teach an aide how to do a task took more time than if I did the task myself. If I didn’t devote adequate time, what they did was often incorrect and unusable.
Peg, I am devoting hours to sharing with you. It is obvious that I am attracted by your attention. It might appear that I use such new encounters to “beat my drum”. Each new encounter is another opportunity to connect, and each time I explore a different approach. That we are both eldering, and you are the only person I relate to who is older than I, it has promise.
INSIGHT NOW 5/30/16 4:14p : I can’t ever expect any one person to adequately meet my needs. I can’t seek others to do tasks I need being done. What I need is a seafing team (of persons devoting a small part of their time) to assess the needs of Larry/nuet and develop a process to meet these needs by creating a SEAFweb. I envision this as using Larry/nuet even after Larry has lost many functions but when nuet is still accessible. I (Larry/nuet) don’t know whether Larry will be able to initiate this endevour.
I have arranged that my body be used by science after death. Until then, I offer my mind/brain containing nuet to be used as a slow, generative insight generator and context expander, by a competent team. Maybe I should compose a proposal and crowdsource funding to recruit such a team.
I attempt to value and respect every person I encounter, especially those who give me their time and attention. However, lacking mental imagery, I never “miss” persons and might forget contacting them unless I encounter a reminder. I can’t grieve unless I force myself to look at pictures. I value friendships and regret having lost contact with some persons from my past.
If what I dream of catalyzing does manifest, I will be swept away in the emergence. I cannot lead, nor would want to. What would happen to my relationships during this process I can only speculate.
Wortman I’m too new at using internet to know how to go about blogging or I would probably do it. —– one of these days..! Cheers !!!
How long have your been using intelligent tools? Long ago I proposed a “survey” device for each person to create their “intelligent technology profile”. I often wonder what others actually do with their computers. Except in office situations where work is programmed and routine, few persons know what others actually do, how they keep their files, what apps they use, and what features of those apps they don’t know about. To create such a profile would be one of the early, but ongoing, tasks for UPLIFT. Personally, I have lost much of my computer functionality, and am aware that there are new apps and tools that would be very useful.
I am becoming more and more aware that blogs and the mainstream social media may be creating a bottleneck for human emergence.
At this moment in my life, my computer system is the slowest and least stable in decades. Windows10 is the primary culprit. I could go back to an earlier OS, but the transition is too daunting. In UPLIFT, seafing teams will greatly enhance the reeee of our work in all situations. reeee = relevant, effective, efficient, enjoyable, elegant.